How would Pep Guardiola do at Man City without any money? And why don’t Man Utd play counter-attacking football with the players they have? Our forum…
Would Pep succeed in the Prem without money?
Songman: You say that Pep would not succeed in the EPL without money. How the hell do you know that? You’re always making the same point but have no way of knowing or proving it. That’s why it’s a bullsh*t argument. It’s unprovable.
Just because he hasn’t tried something doesn’t mean he can’t succeed at it. Also, do you think that any other manager who had opportunities to go to Barca, Bayern, City etc. where he could achieve his goals of bringing success and playing great football would decide to take a job up in Stoke?
Please explain why he wouldn’t succeed. You seem convinced.
Songman
Would Pardew have done a good job at City?
Would lets say Pardew be able to do what Pep has done so far with man city given the exact same resources? No Chance
This whole argument of if a top manager could do it at a lower level is irrelevant they are at the top because they are the best in the business.
AK
‘Money is a big factor in Pep’s success…’
It’s all about opinions folks. As I said I don’t think Pep is a bad manager & no I don’t think a manager like Pardew could take over c$ty & be run away leaders.
However it is my opinion that outspending everyone is the main factor in his success & IMO he doesn’t seem to me to be a manager that could build a successful team on limited funds.
I really respect the fact that Klopp looks for clubs with potential & makes it into a project. He could probably take over rich clubs just like Pep but seems to prefer the challenge.
He may well not be successful with his plan at Liverpool but I respect that a lot more than simply taking over the richest clubs & outspending everyone else.
Number8wasgr8
Hope for McTominay
I think people look at McTomminay and assume that he is a Peter Crouch type figure given his height and that he’s just a big lump to stick in midfield like Fellaini is.
If you watch him though, he’s quick, deceptively so once he gets going. He’s well able to pass and can dribble too. I don’t know how good he’s going to be but he’s certainly capable of being in and around the first team, for now at least.
Killyboye
United ‘extend contracts of trio’
Manchester United have extended the contracts of midfielders Ashley Young, 32, and Daley Blind, 27, and goalkeeper Sam Johnstone, 24. It leaves midfielders Marouane Fellaini, 30, and Michael Carrick, 36, and 36-year-old forward Zlatan Ibrahimovic available to depart on free transfers this summer. (Manchester Evening News)
steveosnakeeye
‘Time for Blind to move on’
Just topping up squad players contracts with Young and Blind, probably a sensible move with so many contracts being allowed to expire around the same time. Think it really is time for Blind to move on though, he could have a good few years ahead of him playing regularly rather than stagnating on the bench.
He’s too good for that but not good enough for where we want to be heading.
Will be a fascinating summer to watch our juggling act in the transfer market, especially as we know funds aren’t finite. If McTominay can kick on, which I am dubious about, it would be one less thing for Mourinho to scratch his head about and the same goes for Perreira coming back.
We can’t afford absolutely everything we need so it would be nice if Jose had the confidence to promote from within.
Wonderfuel Gas
Mourinho has a ‘cynical view on football’
@manthistle I agree, JM has a cynical view on football and (perhaps sadly) I share that view. I think it’s naive and border-line idiotic to think you can outpass a team and after 2 minutes of tici-taca pop one in the top corner if you don’t possess that level of quality in your players.
City deploy the “Barce-way” and it works…as long as KDB is there, as long as Silva is there. Remove those two and try that same tactic. You need a tactic that can fit a team and not only your best 11 players. It’s equally stupid to run att your opposition like manic mouthbreahers, pressing in the final third until you are so tired you can’t defend your own half when needed.
Pool may win a few games with that tactic but it has shown to be utterly dangerous when you don’t get 3 goals and in the end need to defend a 1-goal lead.
You play to your strengths and our strengths lie in physical players like Matic, McTorminay (yes I include him as I think he will be a brilliant player for us), Valencia, Smalling, Jones, Bailly to protect our goal and quick players like Martial, Rashford, Sanchez and Lingaard to punish our opposition on the counter-attack.
Throw in Pogba and Lukaku for special attributes and the style of play becomes pretty obvious. We back off and let the opposition move forward and try to hurt them on the reverese. That will never be pretty and many times frustrating to watch. But I believe that is the most effective way to play in the long run.
So I don’t think we are playing terrible at all, but the again I don’t know that much…
matwe
United allure on the wane…
I’d rather go with points earned than applause
@matwe – Fair enough but it doesn’t have to be points or style, its possible to have points and style.
This is an old debate thats been discussed a lot on here. I suspect the difference of opinion between types of fans. The match going fan who spends a lot of money going to games may think differently from the fan watching the game in the pub or at home.
For me (I’m in Thailand), the effect is that I no longer stay up till 4am to watch evening games or late kick-offs. And I don’t re-arrange my schedule to ensure I see games. I don’t have work mates or friends to engage in “we’re higher in the league than you” tribal fighting.
There are complaints that Old Trafford is quiet (ie no applause) and complaint that the TT forum is quiet. For me, its like a movie. A boring drama movie may win Oscar nominations but there’s not much to talk about or reason to watch it. An exciting thriller movie doesn’t win Oscar nominations but has you on the edge of your seat.
Regarding tactics and players, yes initially a manager must fit tactics to suit his players BUT don’t forget the manager is responsible for transfers. He decides his style(s) tactic(s) then assembles his squad to suit his tactics. If the other way round, what’s the justification for making the manager responsible for transfers?
MacGuffin
Mac – Maybe what you’ve said there has a big impact on how you see United, the results and the ‘performances’. As you say, you don’t watch the games anymore. You don’t have anyone to “banter” with when the good results do come in. So win, lose or draw there’s no impact on you.
That really must change your whole view on supporting the club.
I’m hoping you’re not just reading that one, tiny paragraph in the Bangkok Post that discusses the premier league?!
happyhurling
United ‘set-up to play counter-attacking football’
matwe
With the players you mention we’re setup to play fast counter attacking football all the while being solid and strong when defending.
That’s perfect for me but it’s not how we’re playing. When you have fast players like Martial, Rashford, Sanchez and Lingard (and even Valencia and Young at full back) like you say our attacks should be fast and direct but they’re not. That’s my problem with Jose. The handbrake is always on.
manthistle
Would you stay up to watch United?
@happyhurling – There is a 7 hour difference between Bangkok & UK which means 3.pm kick off is 10pm my time and a late kick off at say 5.30 is okish at 12.3am. But when we are talking 7.30pm evening games then that’s 2.30am kick off for me.
You twisted some games to be “the games”
As regards banter, true I don’t have people to banter about games with here but that’s what I use TT for. Do you have fellow reds to banter about games with?
My point was, I suspect a big aspect for fans like you is oneupmanship with fans of other clubs at work and down the pub. I say this because you (and libanski) spoke of defending United against criticism (I guess jibes) from other fans and not liking having to do the same with fellow reds on TT.
For you, your team being better than other fans teams is doubtless a key factor in the importance of points over performance, especially when you are watching games in the pub not at the match (as we established).
For me, if its a key game like a CL final then yes, its about winning. But if its a case of finishing 2nd instead of 4th, I dont care. And as for domestic cups, I dont care. To be honest, I’m embarassed when when fans like you pop champagne in 2016 after scraping past the likes of Sheffield, Derby, Shrewsbury, WHU and Palace.
Conversely, I take great pride talking about the great players and games I’ve seen over the years. It is those players and United’s reputation for excitement that is the foundation of our success.
Hope all is clear now.
MacGuffin
Mac – Yep, that’s much clearer! I worked in Thailand for a year and watched every single United game, amazing as they’re all televised. 3pm saturday kick offs were my favourite as it was 10pm Saturday night in Chang Mai, perfect timing.
As for banter, it’s everywhere and impossible to get away from. Lots of friends from different places of worked at, university etc. A mixture of Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and City fans. And if I see them it’s abuse in the pub or if not then it’s abuse by telephone. I have what’s app groups with UK reds that I communicate with throughout the game as well as a what’s app group with cousins back home – it’s constant and it’s a lot more than oneupmanship!
As for popping champagne when we win a cup, yes that’s the whole point. Spurs won’t be popping any champagne this year (again) apart from the finish above Arsenal trophy for example.
As for past success, yep fantastic. Great to have such a colourful history. But football is about now, not last season and not next season. It’s about right now.
happyhurling
@happyhurling – The question is whether you’d stay up till 4am (when you have work next day) to watch evening games NOW, bearing in mind it’s JM football not the SAF football when you were in Thailand.
As for banter, its clear a large part of your social circle is fans of other clubs who engage in what you call banter but is probably barracking or ribbing eg “haha you lost, Smalling is crap” etc. This explains why you view criticism in terms of having to defend your club (ie yourself) from attack. This is tribalism, the sort of thing I used to be involved in at school and uni. BUT not now !
In response to my popping champagne comment, you talk about the point being Spurs won’t pop champagne and us finishing higher than Arsenal. WTF has that go to do with us being where we all agree we want to be. For you, just so long as your team is better than your mates teams, all is rosy.
Football is not just about now, it’s about doing things now so the future is rosy. This is what SAF failed to do and the reason I spoke of disaster when you spoke of good to go.
Conclusion – Our difference of opinion comes down to the fact I’m not engaged in throwing stones at other kids in the schoolyard.
PS – If football is only about now, why do you belittle other clubs for not having history.
MacGuffin
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